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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  March 5, 2015 8:00pm-9:01pm PST

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alec future billionaire in hal halifax, this is something as you know the world is waiting for this one. >> thank you very much. >> thank you for joining us. chris hayes is up next. good evening from new york this is a special edition of "all in" the 11th hour. >> the verdict is in the verdict is guilty. today was the day rodney reid was scheduled to die for a crime he says he did not commit. this is the story of a murder in texas. a man found guilty. >> it is just unbelievable. the people trying to save his life. >> everything about this case stinks. >> and the possibility that another man committed the crime. >> he threw me up against the side of his patrol car. >> at the heart of the story, the highest possible stakes. is the state of texas about to
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kill a man for something he didn't do? we went to texas to investigate it, review the evidence and talk to the man sitting on death right now right now. >> i had nothing to do with this case. >> the most active and efficient death chamber in the nation is texas. since 1998 when rodney reid was sent to death row for the rape and murder of stacy steitz since then they have executed 369 people. today rodney was scheduled to be 370. five of his fellow inmates have been exonerated. anthony graves was accused of helping murder six people. there was no physical evidence tieing him to the crime, and the man he was accused of helping,
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who also convicted of the murders and sent to death row, recanted his testimony, saying graves had nothing to do with the killings. in 2006 the court of appeals overturned his conviction. in 2010 anthony graves walked out of prison a free man. rodney reid watches all of that play out. he has been on death row for 16 years. he was scheduled to die by lethal injection tonight but the texas court of criminal appeals issued a last minute stay of execution amid new questions about reid's possible innocence. we travelled to texas to try to find out whether the state was about to execute a man for a crime he did not commit. >> what did watching that much ritualize death do to you? >> it made me think very seriously about the death penalty. >> do you think you watched someone innocent be killed. >> there are some people i have
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doubts about. >> what would that mean, if someone was innocent? >> it would be absolutely horrible. >> rodney reed is 47 years old and has spent his life on death row for a crime he says he did not commit. he was scheduled to be put to death today, but just last week the texas courts of criminal appeals granted him a rare stay of execution. before that stay was granted, i travelled to the prison where reed spends his days as an inmate in livingstone, texas. how are you doing, rodney? >> how are you doing? are you chris? >> i'm chris, nice to meet you. rodney reid was convicted in the rape and murder of a 19-year-old woman named stacy steitz. she was found on the side of a rural county road in 1996. initially, investigators questioned her fiance, a local police officer and the last person believed to have seen
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stacy alive. for a period of time, he was considered a suspect. but almost a year after her death, with the crime still unsolved, rodney reed was brought in for questioning. he denied knowing the victim. >> this girl is stacy steitz. have you ever seen her before? >> no, i haven't. >> never dated her? >> no, i haven't. >> investigators had evidence that directly linked reed to stites. semen found in the body was matched to reed. reed claimed they were having a consensual affair. it took an all-white jury just hours to convict him of the rape and murder of stacey stites. when you found out that you were getting the death penalty, did it feel real to you? did it feel distant? >> it was a nonfeeling. it was like you know really it was unbelievable.
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i just -- it felt like it was in a dream. it wasn't real, this can't be happening. >> to this day, reed maintains his innocence. >> all that evidence has always been out there, it's been in the state's hands all this time. >> reed's case is now in the hands of the innocence project. a decade's old organization that has been involved in the mishandling of 300 wrongfully convicted people. they believe there is enough new information to clear rodney reed. >> this case has everything wrong with it that is wrong with the american criminal justice testimony today. you have racial discrimination, you have misconduct by the state, you have ineffective 00 sift antss of counsel, and
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you have no adequate dna testing and yet you want to execute a person. everything that is wrong with criminal justice shows up in this case. >> he was scheduled to die by lethal injection today. his case is now back in the hands of a texas court. reed says he's on death row for a crime he did not commit. but it rodney reed did not kill stacy stites, then who did? reed's lawyers think they know. the state's case against rodney reed in 1998 was so persuasive it took a jury six hours to convict him for the rape and murder of stacy stites. >> all this here -- am i being charged with something? is that what all this is coming around, am i being charged with something? >> now, new evidence that reed's lawyers say points to a different suspect. one currently in jail for
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kidnapping a woman. >> he was very calm and collected up until the point i told him no. once i denied him, that's when the aggressiveness came out. >> the evidence that rodney reed didn't do it has always been out there. >> it should not have taken this long when you have a prosecutor with unlimited resources, and the county, law enforcement. texas rangers, all of the people involved in this investigation, you tell me the evidence wasn't compiled in the right fashion. it's not right.
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the way they prosecuted rodney was jim crowe. something you read about, and that is the past you think.
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until it happened to you. and it shows that it lurks. it is hidden. but jim crowe still lurks. >> rodney reed is on death row tonight convicted of the rape and murder of stacy stites. when you see how the case was laid out for the jury, you'll understand why. ntil kim realized that stouffer's mac and cheese... made with real cheddar aged to perfection for 6 long months when you start with the best cheddar, you get the best mac and cheese so, what about jessica? ...what about her? stouffer's. made for you to love™. and when you get some time to yourself try stouffer's mac and cheese in a smaller size. minnesota winters are brutal. it's tough being cooped up. it gets a little stale. when dad opens up the window what's the first thing he does? [takes deep breath] the tobin stance. spring is in the air.
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and pollen, dog hair... the sunshine looks like fairy dust. [doorbell chimes] wow! what's this? swiffer sweeper. swiffer dusters. removes up to 70% of dust and allergens. stays on there like glue. wow, look at that! eww. [breathing deeply] the tobin stance. that is totally what it is. april 23rd, 1996. a man driving down a road in texas makes a discovery. a young woman's body partially clothed off of the side of the
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road. her name tag from the grocery store where he works rests on her leg. she is identified as 19-year-old stacy stites of giddings texas. she had been reported missing earlier that morning, after she didn't show up for her early morning shift at the heb grocery in bassdrop. police find a pickup trup behind the local high school. jimmy her fiancee sits down with authorities to give his account of the previous evening. according to fanel, she went to bed at about 8:30 to 8:40 p.m. and he went to bed at about 9:00 p.m. he tells investigators he was asleep but that as far as he
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knows, she left at the same time on the 23rd that she normally did. 3:30 a.m. the travis county medical examiner rules that stacy died as a result of asphyxia during sexual assault. state authorities, the texas rangers take the lead in the investigation. jimmy fanel is investigated as a suspect. authorities speak with him several times. he's found to be deceptive on two polygraph tests, but denies any involvement in stites' death. fanel is ultimately cleared and his dna is not a match. investigators say during the time line he had drawn, he could not have killed his fiancee. over the next several months
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authorities speak to nearly 30 people, who are cleared. a dozen go through dna testing. the case goes cold. police have a dna sample and no match. then months after stacey stites is murdered, a break. >> he opens the door, says thanks for the ride, he gets out, and sits down quick and said don't i get a hug? and i said what? did i get a hug? i was like what do you want from me, and he replied i want to [ bleep ]. and i said you'll have to kill me before you get anything from me, and his words were "i guess i'll have to kill you then." >> a 19-year-old tells police a man tried to force her to have sex with him after she gave him a ride. she identified rodney reed. this appears to lead authorities to take a closer look at reed
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who was accused of sexual assault in 1995. authorities involved in the stacy stites murder investigation run reed's dna against the sample found inside stites' body. it's a match. reed's mother sandra told me that she answered the door when the sheriff first came looking for her son. >> i asked can you tell me what this is for? and they, this young gentleman said, and looked at me teary eyed, and he said no, i can't. that was shocking. and then i said oh my god, is it that bad? and he looked at me and he just shook his head. well rodney wasn't there. >> later that day, rodney reed turns himself into police for what he thinks is a drug charge.
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the result turns out to be something very very different. >> you know i'm one of the investigators on the stacy stites murder. what i want from you, did you know this girl? if you do when you did meet her? do you know who she is? >> no, i don't know a stacy stites. i don't know that person. >> if i showed you a picture of her, would you recognize the picture that you saw? [ inaudible ] >> do you know this girl? >> no, i don't. >> this girl is stacy stites. >> have you ever seen her before? >> no, i haven't. >> never dated her? >> no i haven't. i don't know who this person is. >> reed signs a statement, i don't know stacy stites other than what was on the news. the only thing he saw on the news is that she was murdered.
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then he asked about an attorney. >> you brought me in on this drug thing or whatever. i'm in on this, shouldn't i have an attorney or something. i should have an attorney. >> all right. somebody will be here to get you in a few minutes. >> okay. >> all this stuff here am i being charged with something? >> we'll let your lawyer talk to you about that. >> reed later says he did know stacy stites. he said they were engaged in a secret sexual relationship. and he was lying to investigators. >> when he pulled the picture up i don't know nothing. all i know is what was on the news. that was the truth, the only thing i knew about the situation of stacy is what was on the news. as far as me having a relationship, i wasn't forthcoming with that.
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>> reed said he was trying to avoid saying something damaging. >> i didn't want to incriminate myself. i didn't want to be questioned about it. i had nothing -- i'm a black man in a small town. i'm not pulling a race card or anything like that, but the nature of the -- it was a small city i lived in. >> almost a year after stacey stites is killed, rodney reed is charged with her rape and murder. to this day he maintains he is innocent. you had nothing to do with this case? >> i had nothing to do with this case, nothing at all. >> rodney's family hires a private attorney to represent him but the legal bills are too much. reed is then appointed two attorneys by the state. during the trial, the defense team points to the possibility of another killer. >> prosecutors say dna evidence will prove rodney reed did it. the defense told the jury there is plenty of reasonable doubt. it could have been stacy's fiancee, a police officer who
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would know how to cover up a crime. >> it was raised immediately by the defense. that was a big part of their case. she threw out two potential killers, with jimmy fanel being her -- kind of main option. >> he then takes the stand, right? >> yes. day two, he's on the stand. >> did you find him credible? what effect do you think he had on the jury. >> i think he was believable. >> reed's legal team does not present witnesses to challenge the forensic evidence. they lay out a case that hinges on what reed says was a secret affair between him and stites. but they are not able to produce anyone to reliably corroborate that account. >> at the beginning of this trial, the defense said that they could prove rodney reed and stacy stites were having a secret sexual affair that could account for the dna evidence found in her body. no witnesses ever testified directly that they knew about such an affair. >> if you can explain the presence of the dna through a secret affair between the two of
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them, then to me that's reasonable doubt. the problem is when it came time for the defense to present that evidence, i think the one witness that i remember got up there and said stacy had come to the house looking for rodney she got stacy's name wrong, called her stephanie at first. the lawyer had to ask her, what was the name again? and then she couldn't confirm that there was a relationship between the two of them. just that she had come looking for rodney. so the defense was never able to present a witness that said yeah, these two had a thing going. >> the state makes their case relying entirely on the dna match, telling the jury it's the cinder el ella slipper in this case, and it only fits one person. there's only one person in the world who could have done this and he's sitting over there. the jury finds rodney reed guilty with two counts of capital murder.
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for the abduction and rape of stacey stites. >> the guilty verdict is welcome news for stites family, but they are not celebrating. >> a tragedy that just affected so many family members and friends and it is a very sad day. >> i feel for his family. obviously he had people that loved him too, and it's hard to lose someone. >> when they said guilty, what did you think? >> it was kind of a nonfeeling. i really can't express how -- what i was thinking it seems like -- you know what next. what is going on. i wasn't going to act out or nothing like that it was on my mind. it was just unbelievable. i don't believe this. >> in texas, a capital murder trial is followed by a punishment phase, in which the jury decides whether or not a person should be put to death by the state. the state can offer evidence of
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prior bad acts regardless of whether the person in question has previously been charged with or finally convicted of the crime or act. five women take the stand against reed each alleging he had sexually assaulted them. after just four hours of deliberation by the jury, he is sentenced to death. rodney reed is moved to livingston texas, death row. almost a decade later, a new development. jimmy fanel a police officer and stites' fiancee, is accused of kidnapping a woman, driving her to a recreation area and raining her. today he is serving a 10-year sentence in a texas prison. you hear about jimmy fanel's plea years later. >> yes. >> what went through your mind then? if you're back in that jury
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room, and they're saying this cop killed his fiancee, you're thinking, that seems like a stretch? >> right. >> if you come to the case later, it seems a little more plausible? >> yeah, i remember thinking, we had no idea what jimmy fanel was capable of in 1998. i wonder what a jury would have done if they had known about that at the time. it makes you think a lot harder about whether jimmy fanel could have done it. and that was something that was kind of growing up culturally, it was quite unacceptable and she really dared to let me be different. [thunder and rain] [thunder and rain] [thunder and rain] so i got this listing. 3 bedroom, 3 bath. i have a client that lives out of state.
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there are thousands of people in prison or on death row that say they are innocent. and some of them actually are. the innocence project takes on only a select number of cases. rodney reed is one of them. >> i don't entertain the idea of being executed. if it happens, it happens. but i'm not looking for that to happen. >> key to the innocence project's defense of rodney reed are questions about the state's time line of the death surround surrounding stacey stites. and the man who gave that time line jimmy fanel, the fiancee
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of stacey. >> the body of 19-year-old stacey stites was found along a roadside. she had been raped and strangled. >> her fiance gives his recollection of the events the night before. that helps shape the time line used at rodney reed's trial. stacey went to bed in the apartment they shared in texas at about 8:30 because she had to get up early the next morning to be at work at 3:30. . work was about 30 miles away. she would set her alarm for 2:45 and leave the house at 3:00 a.m. >> stacey stites never made it to work one earl political morning just weeks before her wedding day. >> fw anel's truck is later found by a local patrol officer
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5:23 p.m. abandoned by the local high school. back at the department stacey's mother calls jimmy to tell her her daughter has not made it in to work. around 2:45 p.m., a land appraiser discovers her body miles away from the truck. the apartment that fennell and stites shared was never investigated. following an autopsy, the medical examiner gives an estimated time of death, 3:00 a.m. authorities consider fennell a suspect and he is asked to take a polygraph test. among the questions, did you strangle stacey stites? his answer, no. that response is found to be deceptive by a investigator. later, he is questioned and and
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gives answers found to be deceptive by the test administrator. but polygraph results are not admissible in texas court cases. and investigators eventually rule fennell out as a suspect. nearly a decade later, jimmy fennell finds himself in the public eye once again. >> me and my boyfriend at the time we were out in the apartment complex arguing and fighting, and the neighbors called the cops for a noise disturbance. >> october 2007, police in georgetown, texas are called to a potential domestic disturbance. one of the officers responding to the call jimmy fennell. the dispute involves a 20-year-old woman and her boyfriend. according to a civil lawsuit, the boyfriend is arrested by other officers at the scene. fennell offered to protect lear, an exotic dancer at the time, by taking her to a hotel where she would be safe.
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hear lear says that fennell drove her to a recreational area instead. >> he told me he knew what i did, and he wanted me to dance for him. and when i told him no he, um, he got mad, of course. he threw me against the side of the patrol car, and he took his built off that had the weapons on it, laid it out across the hood of the car for me. started pointing out what everything was. took his issued weapon out placed it against my head and raped me. >> just weeks later, fennell is indicted by a jury. >> jimmy fennell junior is charged with sexually assaulting a woman at gunpoint. last october. >> he ends up pleading guilty to kidnapping and improper sexual
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contact with a person in custody. he's sentenced to ten years in prison and scheduled to be released in september 2018. jimmy fennell declined our request for an interview. >> he cry on the stand when he talked about learning from another officer that stacey was dead. >> juror's in rodney reed's 1998 trial could not have known that a decade later, jimmy fennell would be in prison for kidnapping. what they saw at the time was a credible witness for the prosecution. >> he talked a lot about multiple interrogations kind of good cop/bad cop techniques being yelled at being called names. pretty intensive interrogation from the texas ranger that was in charge. >> jimmy fennell was the primary source for the time line that was used by prosecutors in the conviction of rodney reed for the rape and murder of stacey stites.
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let's talk about the state's time line during the trial and what you think the holes of it are? >> this is raised by the new evidence. the state's time line is based on jimmy fennell who was allegedly asleep at the time. >> at reed's trial, the travis county medical examiner gave forensic confirmation of fennell's time line. estimating stacey's time of death 3:00 a.m. but in 2012 he recanted much of his testimony, including his original estimate of a 3:00 a.m. time of death. noting it should not have been used at trial as an accurate statement of when stites died. according to the state's original case against reed stites was killed sometime after she left her apartment for work. >> the state's argument is this that stacey stites had a 3:30 a.m. shift at the grocery store. she would have gotten up around 2:50 or so and would have
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headed out to bastrop. although jimmy says she would never have stopped for anyone. somehow rodney reed was able to get into the truck, physically overcome her, drive to the scene where her body was found, rape and murder her, leave her body in the brush and then abandon the truck in the bastrop high school parking lot, which was about a half a mile from his home. and that all happened somewhere between 3:15 or so in the morning and 5:23 in the morning. >> the innocence project contends that evidence in photographs and video shows that stites was killed long before the state says she left for work. >> what happens after you die is the capillaries where your blood is start to break down. and your blood begins to pool with gravity. if a person is dead and laying on the floor, they will get very
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pronounced red splotches on their back and that shows the blood has pooled. once that blood begins to pool and fixes, that stays there. that's a process that takes 4 to 6 hours. what we see when we look at stacy stites body we see this redness on the top of her arm, on her shoulder on her neck on the side of her face. that is inconsistent with gravity. and what a trained forensic investigator is that this is a key sign, undeniably, that this is a body that has been moved. >> that assertion is now supported in affidavits given by some of the nation's top forensic pathologists who have reviewed the crime scene photos. it is impossible that stites was murdered and left at the scene in the two hour time frame asserted by the state at trial. while dr. michael bodden
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concludes she was dead before midnight on april 22nd when she was alone with mr. fennell. >> i'm optimistic. i mean the evidence is there, it's just if the courts are willing to acknowledge this. you know what i'm saying? i really -- i'm optimistic, i have faith. >> rodney reed was scheduled to die today by lethal injection. the innocence project says that reed did not commit the crime he was convicted of and they have the evidence to prove it. a texas court must decide if that evidence is powerful enough to reopen the case and keep him from being put to death by the state of texas. rcent or more on car insurance. everybody knows that. well, did you know words really can hurt you? what...? jesse don't go!! i'm sorry daisy, but i'm a loner. and a loner gotta be alone. heee yawww!
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the innocence project. one of the biggest organizations helping people who they believe have been falsely convicted. they have brought forward evidence in the case that was not used before. joining me now is barry scheck. great to have you here. >> good to be here. >> there was a stay granted last week, i guess it was. how rare is a stay like that to be granted by a texas court? >> you have to have a lot of good evidence and the time line evidence. the forensic evidence. not just the rigor mortis. she was no longer stiff, and there was purge coming out of her mouth. these are very esteemed medical examiners. she was decomposed for 20 hours.
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>> more than 20 hours pushes you all the way back to 11:00 p.m. >> she's dead in the house with jimmy fennell. it is rare for a texas court, the court of criminal appeals, to grand this kind of a stay, but we just got a statute passed in texas that allows people to go back into court when there is forensic evidence that can prove evidence that was not originally brought forward at a trial. >> that was passed in texas? you wouldn't normally anticipate that. >> the reason is because there was a series of cases where they recognized that there was a medical examiner who made mistakes, and they went back, the legislature, to do it. we've had a lot of exonerations in texas, and by the way, governor abbott when this stay was granted said, i'm thankful. i don't want an execution in my state when there is a stat
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raised. remember cameron todd bollinghamm. he didn't have that statute available. here was a man that was executed based on junk forensic science. it went all of the way through. they should have stopped it, and i think this governor recognizes after that case other cases, that there's a real risk of executing innocent people. and i think he's thankful. >> cameron todd wilmingham was convicted of arson. of burning down a house. he was -- i think his wife and daughter were in that house. >> three children. >> he was put to death. there's very very persuasive evidence that basically all the science that said it was arson was junk science. i got a chance to ask rodney reed about that, he was on death row with cameron todd bollingham p.m.
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>> i talked to him and he maintained his innocence. he told me he wish he had my case because there was dna that could be utilized. but as far as the science, that science that established his innocence was not on his side. >> this gets to the question, we know what the standard is at trial. it's reasonable doubt. once someone has been convicted sentenced to death, what is the standard? what do you have to show a court to go through the extraordinary process of what is a settled legal matter. >> in texas, the standard is clear. they call it actual innocence or clear and convincing evidence of innocence. so this forensic medical examiner evidence is very, very powerful. and i think it meets that standard and that's the reason this case was stayed. >> and so you actually have to -- you have to come forward and say, we have evidence of actual innocence, right?
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>> in texas, you do, yes. >> how has the process for this developed? i mean obviously we have seen largely because of the innocence project, i have to say, this sort of pioneering use of dna evidence, there are a lot of people around the country that are innocent of crimes how has that affected how the legal regime across the country deals with habeas corpus, with appeals? >> dramatically. what basically has happened in the last six years, six states have repealed capital punishment which now makes all together 18 that say it is illegal. but there are another eight that have not ex-kutsed anybody, and have not given out death sentences in ten years. so it's fallen to disuse. governors we just saw in pennsylvania and the state of washington, and the state of oregon are saying, i'm declaring a moratorium. >> we have seen a decline, we have seen states changing their legal regime, and we have seen a
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decline in executions over time. in 1998 you've seen that go down dramatically. >> down 60%. >> what are the lessons here? broadly from a case like rodney reed that's just one of the many cases that you've handled. >> there is a serious risk of executing innocent people. whether you're for or against the death penalty, that is something no one can tolerate. there is other public policy reasons people can debate it. and also, i know it is a favorite issue for you is that you don't want to have legal restrictions that prevent you from putting on evidence of innocence that we had with the anti-death penalty. >> passed under clinton. and still exists. thanks so much for being here. >> appreciate it. >> right now rodney reed is waiting to see what will happen with the stay of execution in his case. he was scheduled to die by lethal injection today.
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when i spoke with him last month, he told me firsthand what that process looks like. >> before i was put on death watch, i was housed in an area to where you could see the van pull in. and you could see the guy, if he's out here with his last visit, you can see the team all suited up with their helmets, the gear on all that stuff, escorting him down and back into the building. strip him out, put him back in shackles and then put him in the van and take him to huntsville. you see that whole process going on there. all the way until... the am. new aleve pm the only one to combine a safe sleep aid plus the 12 hour strength of aleve. so,as my personal financial psychic, i'm sure you know what this meeting is about. yes, a raise. i'm letting you go. i knew that. you see, this is my amerivest managed... balances. no. portfolio. and if doesn't perform well for two consecutive gold.
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derailed in galina illinois today. there were no reported injuries there. we'll be back with "all in america the 11th hour" right after this. once i saw what they did, i actually started to relax. don't touch my things. those little guys clean, brighten and fight stains. so now i can focus on more pressing matters. like your containers. isn't it beautiful? your sweet peppers aren't next to your hot peppers. [ gasps ] [ sarah ] that's my tide. what's yours?
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in working on this story we have tried to speak to as many people as possible. we tried to reach several members of stacey stites family. we requested interviews with several of the investigators on the case including the lead investigator. they all declined to speak with us. the texas attorney general's office where prosecutor attorney lisa tanner is still working declined to comment. the texas governor's office did not respond to our request for comment. the current bastrop county district attorney declined to speak with us on the record. we were not successful in reaching the former da. all in all, after repeated requests, no one would speak to us on the record for this piece. we did, however, manage to talk
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to many other people involved in this case including rodney reed himself. i travelled to death row in livingston texas, to ask him about the case about his claims of innocence and what his life has been like for the past 16 years on death row. were you scared? i mean this -- you are told that you're being sent to go live with the worst monsters in texas. the people who have done the most heinous acts and you're going to be around them. >> no, i can't say they was scared. i can't say that i was scared. i didn't want to come here, but once i got here, some of these guys used to be someone else's neighbor, someone's brother, someone's father. you know what i'm saying? you don't know what may have happened in their lives that brought them here. >> what has your life been like here? what's a -- i mean, what's a typical day like?
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>> well, pretty much every day pretty much repeats itself. you go in your cell, come out of your cell, you're fed through a slot. you're confined to a small space. the routine, the daily routine, you have a program. it's the same program every day. not unless you want to stay in your cell. i choose to come out and exercise what little rights i do have, you know what i'm saying. going to the day room or going outside or something like that, to enjoy. it is a small society back here. it's a small society back in here. >> so do you see the other inmates throughout the day. >> you can see them, if you're in your cell, depending on where your cell is, i'm a corner, so if someone is in the day room i can talk to them from my cell. but then you have like -- i don't know if you can see the window in the door there with the little slot. >> so you can yell out? >> yeah. but then you kind of just, out
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of respect, at a certain time -- you can't do that all throughout the night. you have people with things on their minds and they're busy doing other things or someone else is trying to talk to someone. >> so you're saying there is one open public space for people to have conversations -- you can't be the one -- >> so your conversation is not private. >> but you always can't always be the one in the conversation space because you're taking it from someone else. >> no. but if no one's talking, hey, the floor's yours. we have an opportunity to go outside and have recreation outside, but then it is like a divider and there is two sides, and there's only two guys outside at a time. >> you're out with someone else? >> yeah. >> can you talk to them. >> yeah. there is basketball on each side. you can see who can make ten shots. run back and forth, try to stay mentally and physically in shape. >> do you have friendships that
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have been born here? >> i don't use that word loosely. friends. friendship. i have guys that i associate with because when you go as far as making a friend, there are feeling there is that if you know what i a true friend is, you know what i'm saying, and the next thing you know you know the state ask going to take them, more than likely the state will kill them. so i don't get as close as calling someone my friend. >> what is it like on a day of an execution? an execution day? >> most of those days are pretty quiet. it depends, it really depends.
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what's happening is real it's not like tv where someone gets killed in a movie and then he made some money and went home back to his family. this is real. they're really killing people here in texas. >> what i learned from months of investigating his case, next. sweet mother of softness... charmin!!! take a closer look at charmin ultra soft and you'll love what you see. not only can you use less, but you can actually see the softness in our comfort cushions. we all go. why not enjoy the go with charmin ultra soft? ...they ran into jeff nash, like literally ran into him so awkward. that wasn't
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i spent the last two months pouring over rodney reed's case and i still don't know if he's innocent or guilty of the crime that put him on death row. there's a lot of disturbing allegations against him independent of that crime. what i do know is that i don't trust the criminal justice system in texas or anywhere else frankly. a nation where nearly 150 people on death row have been exonerated. i also know that immersing myself in the details of this case has on strengthened my feeling that the state has no business killing people. what i strongly feel though i can't say this for sure if we can get in a time machine and go back to 1998 when rodney reed was on trial for the rape and murder of stacey stites and give reed access to the best defense money could buy, i have a very hard time believing he would
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have ended up facing execution by the state. and if that's true if that's what determines justice in this country, then it is not justice at all. this has been "all in america: the 11th hour". the rachel maddow show starts now. >> good evening, chris, thank you. thank you at home for joining us this hour. a lot going on in the world tonight. a big show planned. lots of news, but we're waiting right now on a live news event. a press conference due to start right now in los angeles. and it will happen at the southern california golf course where actor harrison ford was in a plane crash just a few hours ago. mr. ford has survived this accident. his son tweeted that he is battered but okay. after crashing his vintage plane on the golf course in venice, california.


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